Welcome to the Atrix Forum - Motorola Atrix Forum.

Register ButtonIf this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

This is a discussion on Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers within the Motorola Atrix General Discussion forums, part of the Motorola Atrix Forum category; So... I follow P3Droid on Twitter, and whether you like him or not, if you know him or know of him, then you understand that ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
Like Tree4Likes

Thread: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

  1. #1
    Super Moderator/RS
    Member #
    7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    11,157
    Twitter
    @das8nt
    Liked
    1281 times

    Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

    So... I follow P3Droid on Twitter, and whether you like him or not, if you know him or know of him, then you understand that he knows his stuff; he knows Android hacking and development, and more specifically, Motorola hacking and development. I'm sure he's not infallible, by any means, but I usually take what he says with a bit more than a grain of salt.

    He's been hinting for some time that he has some disturbing news for the hacking and modding community, and it looks like he is deciding to release it, a little at a time. Below is a link to his first post on the matter. He tweeted after this that he would spill on 'the third shoe' tomorrow, now being today, Sunday. After reading this first post I can't imagine what the 'third shoe' will be, but I guess we'll be finding out shortly...

    Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

    I, for one, am staying where I'm at with my phone right now, which is rooted only. Who knows what will come out of this in the end, but I don't think it's cause for alarm just yet; according to P3, what's done is already done; and it's been done my thousands.

    AtrixForums.com : My Anti-Drug : Above the iNfluence

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Member #
    353
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    251
    Liked
    12 times
    Oh boy...I dont like the sound of that post. I guess we should have known that eventually this would happen. That eventually the manufacturers and carriers would completely change what is best about Android to suit their financial needs.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator/RS
    Member #
    7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    11,157
    Twitter
    @das8nt
    Liked
    1281 times
    Yeah, I always knew something like this was going to come down the pipe... it was only a matter of time.

    The third part, The Rubber Meets the Road, has been added. I've had some more time to think about this, and I've come to realize a few things. The following is my opinion on the whole subject. It might not be a very popular one, and posting it is not meant to start a large debate or anything, I just wanted to express my feeling on the matter. Please do not take offense to any of the points I'm trying to make; hopefully some of you know me well enough so far to know that I don't mean offense to anyone.

    Opinion starts here...

    They're right. The manufacturers, the carriers... they're right. We may not like it, but in the end they both have the full say in what happens. I'll give a few examples in a moment as to why I see it this way, but first I need to let you know where I'm coming from. I have a rooted phone; it's not my first rooted phone. I have tethered; though not often or very much at all, but I have tethered without a tethering plan on my account. I have installed ROMs, custom kernels, MODs, hacks... you name it, I've done it. I enjoy it if only because I can. Did I do it because it was needed? In some circumstances, I might argue, "yes;" in others, not in the slightest... it was just fun. The point to this being is that I have done most of everything that is being discussed in the Food For Thought post; and I've done it because I wanted to.

    That brings me to a first example. You buy a car; a $20k car at that. Say you pay cash for it; it's yours. You don't even have to have full coverage insurance on it if you don't want to (some states.) You bought it as you daily driver, but you want to make some mods to it: aftermarket exhaust, lowering kit, cool-air intake.... and nitrous. You can do all of those things.; there's no one stopping you. What you can't do though, is maintain a factory warranty on your new car if you install those mods. When you alter the build of the car you are losing your right to claim that that car was manufactured improperly since it's no longer in the same state in which it was delivered to you. No big deal, right? Nothing ever goes wrong until the warranty expires anyway, we all know that. So, you take it to a drag track to see what it can do; how fast can it go? How quick can it hit the quarter mile line? You want to be know as the fastest, so you don't hold back... you kick in the nitrous.... but there's a problem. You didn't realize that the car was not meant to take that kind of load the way it was built. You blow your engine. Is the dealership or manufacturer going to warranty that engine? Would you really expect them to?

    Second example. The same car you purchased, before you ever take it to the track, you want to drive it.... I mean really drive it; feel the true power and handling on the road. You take it out on the Interstate because that has the highest speed limits. You quickly get it up to to 70 mph, but that's not enough. You need more. You start to push it a little farther; no big deal... law enforcement doesn't usually care if you're only going a few mph over the limit, right? Well, you haven't been caught yet, so why not push it a little more? Before you know it you're at 95 mph and you see blue lights coming up quick behind you. Is that office going to let you off the hook because you own the car, have it modded and you feel you can do what you want with it? Would you expect them to?

    Yes, we buy the phones. Yes, we own them. Yes, we can mod them how ever we can. What we can't do, though, is agree to a service contract and expect the provider of that contract to allow us to ignore their rules and exploit their services to the point that it costs them money. They are a business. They are not in the business for giving away free service, or replace products because the end user did not use them as intended; if they were they would not be in business very long. The carrier has the right to charge what they do, whether we like it or not. We, as users, have the right to find service elsewhere (most of us) or do with out. We agree to their terms when we allow them to provide us service. You do not have to sign a contract to agree to their terms; activating your phone on their network makes the agreement for you. Manufacturers have the right to lock their phones down, after all, they manufacture them. They are not in business to provide two or three phones for the price of one just because we broke the first couple trying to make them do things they were not intended to do. Again, if they were then they wouldn't be in business very long. If we do not like their practices we can buy from others.

    I guess what it all boils down to in my mind is that if modding and hacking had been used the right way, we, the modding community and it's followers, might not have this situation coming down on us. If we did it just to customize our phones the way we want them, I'm sure they would have allowed that and worked with us. Since the opposite has been true for the most part, it surprises me in no way that this is about to happen. Users have been 'jailbreaking' and 'rooting' their phones for years, with a vast majority of them being used to circumvent the rules. So, the rules are about to change... like it or not.

    AtrixForums.com : My Anti-Drug : Above the iNfluence

  4. #4
    Super Moderator
    Member #
    21
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    not arizona
    Posts
    4,305
    Twitter
    @nakdea
    Liked
    765 times
    That is a good point. Although I don't really do a lot of anything considering this is my first android. I do like the ability of downloading a custom ROM. I don't really care to tether or anything though..


    Good post das8nt.

    ^ nexus 5 .
    galaxy s 3 . optimus g . nexus 4 . atrix

    fin.


  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Member #
    3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro Atlanta
    Posts
    2,620
    Liked
    547 times
    While I see and understand all the points das8nt has made here, there is a far more fundamental issue at risk here to my way of thinking. Here is the post I made in P3's thread:

    The argument I haven't seen raised here, yet is this: With this precedent, does it not allow for the service providers to broaden what they charge for? For example, I pay AT&T for a DSL line into my home and for the data that flows over it. Should they be allowed to charge me for the wireless network I installed, at my expense and with my knowledge, in my home to use that DSL service? Or dictate how many devices I can have on that network? I have a PC, a laptop, 4 DVR's, a game machine, and 2 Android devices that share that single line nearly 24/7/365...should I have to pay them more than someone who just uses a low end Gateway or Dell, with nothing else? Can my ISP tell me that I can only have x-number of devices connected to their service? Should they? It seems to me that any differentiation of how the data is used--such as tethering--opens the door for just such restrictions to begin.

    Anyone else see the parallel?


    Now, having said that, I'll say this: Have I tethered? Yes, mostly using my NexusOne (which AT&T for some reason doesn't recognize as a smartphone at all). Why? Well, last week my DSL was completely out, the line ripped out of the ground by a tree cutting service. Without that tether, I'd have been MIA on all the fora I'm responsible for, including this one. I also use it when my laptop is unable to connect to the wifi network at the hospital I receive my infusions at every six weeks--a 5 to 6 hour experience in boredom ;-). Do I use it just for fun? No. Never. But it's available on my Nexus, which still has an unlimited data plan.
    Next, yes, I have rooted the Atrix (even though I unrooted for the update). Why? Because I need to be able to sideload apps. That's the ONLY reason. That said, am I violating my TOS with AT&T by sideloading? Or does it just piss them off that I can bypass their "we know what's good for you" approach? I'll also say that I've never rooted the Nexus, because it does everything I need of it without root! And this is, IMHO, what Android is supposed to be all about. If these features weren't blocked by ATT and Moto in the Atrix, I'd have no reason to root it, either.
    Still and all, my biggest problem with all this is what I stated in my post copied above...it sets a very dangerous precedent to allow the carriers to dictate every last detail of how we can and can't use their services. It's a bigger issue to me than "how I use the device I bought" or even "they can't tell me what to do". It's more about whether they should be allowed to parse our usage in such a way. Me? I think that goes one step too far...
    G-Man likes this.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator/RS
    Member #
    7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    11,157
    Twitter
    @das8nt
    Liked
    1281 times
    I actually completely agree with you on this point. I still have many things I don't agree with when it comes to what the carriers are trying to do.

    For one I do not agree that tethering should be charged if you pay for a certain amount of data. If you pay for 200mb, and you can tether your pc to that and still not go over, then more power to you, I say. You know the risks of overage and you'll have to pay them should you exceed your limit.

    Unlimited is a different story. I don't know a good solution to this situation. If we ever want to be able to tether without and additional tethering fee, then I believe unlimited data will have to go away. It's a trade off no matter what you do. We don't want to pay the needless fee and they don't want us to use their expensive bandwidth for our main internet connection withouy compensating them for it.

    So, while I still wholly support my original opinion post, I in no way agree with everything carriers are trying to do; just the specific points I mentioned.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

    AtrixForums.com : My Anti-Drug : Above the iNfluence

  7. #7
    Member
    Member #
    750
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33
    Liked
    0 times
    I just use root for non market apps. So my question is do I need un root my atrix before the next udate this month (which is suppose to be the 4g udate)?

  8. #8
    Super Moderator/RS
    Member #
    7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    11,157
    Twitter
    @das8nt
    Liked
    1281 times
    Quote Originally Posted by wasjr80 View Post
    I just use root for non market apps. So my question is do I need un root my atrix before the next udate this month (which is suppose to be the 4g udate)?
    I would say no, but there has been no public release on how this will all play out and when. Root alone will not stop the update as far as I know. Supposedly, if this all turns out to be true, and AT&T is one of the carriers tracking this, which I'm sure they are, then root now or root at the next update won't make much of a difference. What's done is done, as P3 put it.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

    AtrixForums.com : My Anti-Drug : Above the iNfluence

  9. #9
    Rescue Squad
    Member #
    133
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Laramie, Wyoming
    Posts
    1,894
    Liked
    486 times
    All i have to add to this, after reading the above posts is..... the SH*T is about to HIT THE FAN...... better get your umbrellas ready.

    If you need help, and I appear to be offline, shoot me a msg on Gtalk, or PM me and I'll respond as soon as I possibly can!!

  10. #10
    Super Moderator/RS
    Member #
    7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    11,157
    Twitter
    @das8nt
    Liked
    1281 times
    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    All i have to add to this, after reading the above posts is..... the SH*T is about to HIT THE FAN...... better get your umbrellas ready.
    Anyone have a REALLY BIG umbrella for sale? Lol!

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

    AtrixForums.com : My Anti-Drug : Above the iNfluence


 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Remove Ads

Ads

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. What exactly is Rooting?
    By Rumdada in forum Motorola Atrix General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-31-2011, 08:26 AM
  2. Rooting
    By vaanesthesia in forum Motorola Atrix Help
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 03-25-2011, 02:46 PM
  3. Need help rooting
    By mejublue in forum Motorola Atrix Hacks
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-18-2011, 04:39 PM
  4. Rooting with a Mac
    By capngrouch in forum Motorola Atrix Hacks
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-11-2011, 03:13 PM
  5. For those leaving carriers and considering porting your old number to your Line!
    By healthservices in forum Motorola Atrix General Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-23-2011, 06:24 PM

Search tags for this page

bootloaders for atrix 2

,

carriers stopping rooted

,

p3droid, third shoe

,

rooted atrix wanting to update carrier

,

rooting my atrix for unlimited data

,

things to know before rooting atrix

,

what's the best way to go about hacking my atrix?

,

will we ever be able to hack the artrix motorola

Click on a term to search for related topics.